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THOUGHT FOR THE DAY // Gigs - Fan or No Fan Attendance? BandRepublic, posted 07/30/09 15:42:57 |
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It’s interesting, we get to hear lots of bands complaining about promoters and lots of promoters complaining about bands, but who is right? It seems that all of the arguments have some justification… so we felt it would be a good idea for promoters to read what bands are saying and for the bands to read and get an understanding of where a promoter is coming from. It’s clear that there are good promoters out there up and down the country whom do really care and there are other promoters out there who treat it simply as a business. There are of course some great bands out there whom work very hard and others that simply expect things to be done for them. Ultimately it all comes down to economics, some bands don’t understand that the back end of a gig night is someone contacting bands during the weeks leading up to the event, booking the venues, paying for soundguys, doorstaff, security, equipment hire etc. That all has to be paid for somehow! They have a right to expect you to bring some people along don’t they? From our own experience of organizing gigs we have witnessed first hand the hard work it takes to consistently put on a night of quality new music. We have had bands turn up with nobody at all but also experienced bands that have worked hard at getting a decent crowd along. In our opinion if all bands could generate a decent crowd then the atmosphere for all bands/artists playing would be fantastic. The question is, What is a decent crowd? We put the following question to the bands on www.bandrepublic.com and contacted a few promoters for their views, some of the responses have made for very interesting reading and we are inviting you to have a read and then post your own thoughts. It’s certainly an issue that has got people thinking! THE BANDS “You have to see it from both sides. Bands want (and are advised by most ‘industry experts’) to play lots of gigs so they can build up a following, but usually get cajoled by promoters into bringing hundreds of people to every gig (for very little return) - meaning they have to cajole their friends to come. This applies to all bands at all gigs (unless they get ‘big’ with managment or record company support), so for the vast majority of regular gigs, bands turn up with a handful of ‘fans’ (usually girl/boyfriends) getting nowhere and rarely finding any new fans, while the promoter sits by the door counting the cash. However, promoters are not in it for their health, and when you put a night on, you naturally want to book bands that are going to attract a crowd so you know that a) they’re a good band, and b) there’s something in it for you, and the venue will let you continue to run your business with them. There are very few altruistic promoters out there with money to throw at unknown bands night after night - they’ve got a living to earn like the rest of us! It is very frustrating from both sides, and as a band person who has never promoted but has thought about it a few times, I try to see it from both sides. In an ideal world, bands could play every night of the week (for free) in front of a crowd of music fans built up by the promoters who have gleaned a reputation for putting on good music for cheap prices in a cool venue. Then again, in an ideal world, music fans would venture out of there houses every night of the week in their droves to come and watch unknown bands. The answer in my opinion? More 14+ nights. Kids are MAD for it and will always come out to see bands - adults are too caught up in the exhausting rat race lifestyle to think about supporting us struggling bands! “ Jimmyandthebanned “Both bands AND promoters need to work equally hard in generating interest in a gig. It feels highly unfair when a promoter blames a band for a poor turnout if all he has done is sit on his **** with pound signs in his eyes!” Zero Pilot I think promoters don’t do enough and are often misleading x Ellie Jay Gigs are in my view the best experience for a performer and are vital in getting your name out there to new people. Bringing people to gigs is probably the responsibility of the promoters and the artists, although it is hard for the band/performer to get their fans to loads of different gigs. You want to look after them and not make them feel like you are just taking loads of money off of them. Owen Williams ‘I think it is definitely up to both, but if the promoter does not promote (what the name would actually mean  then he does not really help himself nor the artists development. Some of UK’s artists are absolutely fantastic but don’t get a chances enough to show what they are able to do in front of a big crowd without having a label deal or the support of a journalist.If everyone would do there part and work together by sending out (online) flyer and listings, be in contact with journalists etc. in a focused way, it would be much more efficient and everyone would go home with a happy face, be it musician, promoter, music lover.. And that’s what music should bring in the end: fun. Thank you for this idea to say your opinion out loud.  ’Tina Mali In our experience it’s always hard to fill a gig when the bands are relatively unknown. It’s down to hard work from the promoters and the bands. In these days of Facebook and Myspace the marketing tools are there for bands to reach many people. Of course this never guarantees and strong turn out, as there is so much competition on any one night in a town like Bristol. A unique selling point for the night is am ways a good idea (drinks promos etc). Kieran, The Peelers Well what a tin of worms… Well the clue is in the title “PROMOTER” Harvey Goldsmith is a PROMOTER. He books a venue, books the acts, pays the acts, advertises the gig sells the tickets and hopes to recoup his expenses and preferably make a profit. Most “PROMOTERS” on the grass roots scene are shiester gig bookers, who rarely pay the bands enough to cover their expenses to play if at all! And into the bargain expect the bands themselves to pay for advertising and bring at least 25 fans… that only watch their mate’s band and then sod off This makes being a good band a popularity contest and not a reflection of the musicianship, song craft and showmanship of a band, particularly in a new area or venue. We, in Shameful Behaviour will not do such gigs. We get paid to play and put on a show with costume and pyrotechnics and some killer songs. We can also play for 2 hours with a mix of originals and covers. But we cannot and will not give a guarantee of any number of crowds. I think maybe there are too many “hobby” bands getting out and playing gigs and lowering the overall standards of music and alienating the music loving public. Go to any pub gig on a Friday or Saturday and you will hear the same old covers that have been played for nearly 40 years or more! Also too many “Gig Bookers” are trying to squeeze in as many bands as possible on a night which is bad news as well. Standards need to be raised! Mark Simpson, Shameful Behaviour There are good reasons why record labels spend money on marketing and PR. Through solid marketing and PR you can build a genuine and solid fan base for the artist and their music and obviously build the artist profile. A great artist with good songs sells. That combined with solid PR equates to a sustainable music career. Without a significant budget available building a fan base, particularly for gigs is more challenging and requires some serious out of the box and creative thinking to move an artist to the next level. Behind each successful artist that you read about today is a solid PR campaign and infrastructure. With regards to first level gigs the fan base will usually consist of friends and family. A genuine fan base though consists of new fans who discover the artist and their music. When an artist starts gigging it can be a bit of a chicken and egg situation. An artist has to start somewhere. Some promoters, not all, require a minimum number of people to attend the gig. Some promoters overlook that requirement if the artist is genuinely very good. Some promoters are simply interested in quantity over quality and a good artist may be viewed in a bad light by a promoter who is fixed only on how many people the artist gets to come to the gig. If a promoter is genuinely interested in promoting great new artists then the promoter should take a more significant role in building a fanbase for that night and work together with the artists to publicise the night. Exposure is the key and that does not come from eg. flyering unless you are flyering to a relevant and receptive audience who know about the event or the artist. An artist can publicise the gig online through the relevant channels and so on but it still boils down to getting good exposure through good PR and radio play. In our case, we are the production company for Miri, and I am writing in my capacity as the production company, and Qton have invested substantially in getting everything ‘oven ready’ , including the album, artwork etc, rehearsals for Miri’s backing band, styling and so on, all the ingredients necessary to take Miri to the next level. So, if eg. Miri does a gig and in spite of all our hard work less people than we had expected come to a gig it doesn’t mean we or the artist have not worked hard it just means that building a fanbase is an ongoing process. So, overall I would say it requires effort and understanding on the part of the promoter and the artist and for both to work together and productively for a successful gig for both the promoter and the artist. Also, if the promoter succesfully builds their brand and as such can get regular attendance at gigs by the tastemakers from media and radio this can also facilitate the turnout. Charlotte, Manager of solo artist Miri Gigging in London is a sore subject. In my opinion, no promoter should expect to make money from an unsigned band. As, by principle these are bands without any fans. It is these people making money by exploiting young bands that has killed the music scene. I run a night in Camden. It’s 50p entry. and that’s how it should be across the board. Kier, Fearless Vampire Killers THE PROMOTERS Hey, I think bands should always provide a 50+ crowd… It’s completely reasonable - they’re a warm up band, and with respect, most people that come (except bands guests) won’t have heard of the band. We put a lot of money into our events so we need to know that bands are bringing a following personally. Also, the PR and promotion bands get from us is huge. Bands that have a following are generally happy with the terms. Door percentages only work with bigger name bands that are already a pull to the general public. Emily from Bangersandmash - Proud Galleries, Camden, London We believe it is vital that both parties to push together to try and get as many people in as possible… Although we do ensure all major papers, radio stations, magazines, etc receive our listings, we expect our bands to promote their shows from their end as well. Some people that come in just to enjoy a live show get put off if there’s nobody there, so the quickest way to gain new fans is to already have some of your supporters at your gig. Mariana from Bugbear - Dublin Castle/Hope & Anchor, Camden/Islington, London |
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